We consider racism as it come only from 1 side, our side

But in reality most of "etnic" or social group ( as example in the UE gipsy or African migrants...) even if victims of racism are much more racist

Now don't react please i lived in very close connection with gipsy i may swear they were all not only very racist with no-gipsy
(basically no gipsy were considered as animals to predate )but they even distinguish inside, only members of the family were
accepted as "humans with full human right"

My last girlfriend was African from Sierra Leone, and she could not be racist also because was not a referral group .since we had very few immigrant from there, and more because Sierra Leone is not a real contry, but his border are a left over from coloniamism , a "artifical" border that inside include people of the very different etnic groups and religions, (that was a cause of the civil war)

But i see the others
basically we were living in the same place and even if Italian i was a referral point because i was there first and some basic things as electrical and water furnitures was depending on my intercession (not strictly necessary but hard to replace.
And i was surprised:
somehow for me they were all "black africans", but i could witness several fights based , justificated and/or amplicated by racist convitions

that anyway was only one side of the medal, on the other side we were basically on the same boat (here i refer to African...Gipsy would never accept to be in the same boat with "stangers" , at most they could tolerate to be in the same boat with other gipsy from a different family but even that not without sparks and frictions) so we had to collaborate


Once a Dutch explained me the historical reasons why most of the Dutch that emotionally looks quite racist are apparently very tolerant

Suppose as example that you are a very intolerrant Christian, you will frow to no cristian and even distinguish from "real Cristians (that of your church ) and all the others misleaded by Satan ,that will a roast in the Hell

And you will consider badly and silently condamn not married woman with children, gay, and so on and on
BUT , here the point, most of Holland was BELOW sea level, if was not submerrged was only for the dikes

And suppose the dike failing and the sea coming in to fllod you house and farm,and drown your animals and family

Then if happens and someone really help to stop the flood, in that moment become irrilevant if he/she is homosessual, a hooker, a muslism or what else...the only thing that matter is work togheter to stop the flood

Later , once solved the emergency in the privacy of your home, a bit of racism may come back, you go back sharing your racisti feeling and convition with your family (niggers really smell so badly, was one close to me i could not stand the stink
...i bet she is not only a shamelless sinner but ios really a hooker...)

But that will remain private, in public who helped would be considered part of the community and racism condamned...
racism then will start to raise little by little,to be vanish again at every new emergency

personally I think all racisim is abhorrent!

Sure AKKY i could not agree more
but the point is how to do when YOU are not racist but a victim of racism.even if of a unespected form of racism
(because you are not hebrew, or gipsy, or black, or gay, or muslism or... )

##################################################

Not sure what Jolie ,that is Dutch, will think about my reconstruction of the historical roots of dutch tolerance.

I lived 5 years in Amsterdam and that was told me by varies sources with only minor variations ,all variations were on the interpretation

as

We sailors and merchants and in both cases be racist would ruin the business:
you will damage all the business with member of other ethnic group.

When the flood come there is no time to be racist, or better racism shift:
All the categories as gay, muslim , catholics, black, white become meaningless, they vanish replaced by only 2 categories:
who help to stop the flood and who doesn't.

and same for business...only 2 categories may be used by a smart businessmen
who is useful for the business and who is not
Not because the businessmen are immune from racism, but because in most it will cost
, while tolerance with "stranger" clients and partner will help expand business and market share

PC:

It is interesting to read a comment on this from someone in the "old country" where boundaries and groupings have centuries of history.

People in the United States (and probably other similar "colonized" countries) have trouble understanding this. Our dominant culture is very different - we all are descendents of immigrants. (Except the Native American Indians.) People moved to settle new lands as individuals, not as clans or national groups. It is true that immigrants tend to cluster together initially, but after a couple of generations the bulk of the group has dispersed and moved into the general population.

Americans are a very mobile society. Every other generation moves out of the area where they grew up. It's hard to keep a narrow ethnic/racial identity with this type of mixing. For example, my cousins are scattered across the country (and outside of the country - one retired to Paris and another lives in Africa.)

It's hard to keep ethnic / racial distinction meaningful when you and your children live in a neighborhood and community made of people from many different ethnic backgrounds. The children play together and go to school together. They don't see their friend and classmates as anything other than friends and classmates, regardless of where their ancestors came from.

I'm a Wisconsin native (Great Lakes region / upper Midwest) but I lived and worked in Delaware (East coast between Washington DC / Baltimore and Philadelphia / New York City). People are the same both places. The fact that I was an immigrant from 1000 miles away was irrelevant.

It takes a long time to break down the racial/national distinctions. Mixing of the population facilitates this, which is why our culture is so different from yours. I see the EU and helping to facilitate this and perhaps in another 4 or 5 generations many of the distinctions and feelings will have faded.

Your story about the Dutch is similar to the American military experience. You are thrown into a mixed group and have to work together. Combat situations really help break down prejudices - when someone from an ethnic group you despise saves you life, it's hard to keep despising them. And that works its way back into the general population.

As I said, a very interesting comment from someone who lives where the problem has existed for centuries.

Good point, i remember the previous US administration, it was very far to be "democratic "(obviously was not :
it was 100% republican, but i used democratic in a broader sense so not referring to the "Democratic Party" ) clearly was very right-wing

That type of "right wind" coincide on many aspect (consider irrelevant "human right" at least if violation are done out of US border, consider a reasonable price to pay a huge amount of "collateral damage and victims, do not hesitate to kill a supposed terrorist strike him with a rocket in a busy market, or hit always with a rocket the COLLECTIVE taxi were he was travelling even if inside were half a dozen of innocent passengers all burned alive with the terrorist...) with our "right" parties

BUt was a striking difference very visible,
2 "black" at the command place , 1, C Rice not only black but even a woman ,

Here all the most successful neo-fascist or anyway xenophobic parties have AT LEAST 1 gay, 1 black immigrant,and 1 gipsy
member to show as a proof that they are no racist
But you will never see one of them in a leader positions, are included only to capture niche of electors not to rule

while on the contrary even Bush had no problem to let during the war a Black woman in a leader position.

Dutch are anyway a bit weird the leader of the most successful and more xenophobic party (killed years ago ) was a proclamed homosessual, the kind of homossessual that dress as Elthon Jonh , drive big pink car and love his little dog

Also his reason to be xenophobic was very unusual even if very logical:
he believed that too much muslism migrants or anyway too much migrants from other culture were incompatible with all the good things Holland offer, including tolerance, coffeshops, red light districts and respect for Gay and woman right

This is very dangerous and turbulent waters and will get out of hand unless the mods keep a close eye on it. I disagree that we only see racism from our point of view. I don't, I try to see it from both sides. I hate racism in any form, and that includes gender bashing. I will not take part when men make insulting jokes about women nor will I tolerate it when women bash men.
Racism is all around us and always will be. Always. In some form or another it will creep into society and our minds. In an ideal world we could stamp it out but it isn't an ideal world and with the current mindset of 'never offend anybody' it's unfashionable to take a stand against anything. All we can do, which fortunately is the best thing to do, is for each of us to just know that there will always be racists and we have to deal with them and to always check ourselves and make sure we're not racist about something.

This is a pretty damning claim to make. Could you provide some supporting evidence? I personally know of situations where the exact opposite was true -- that is, the U.S. refrained from attacking terrorists when the risk of harming innocents was present, to the eventual cost of a great number of lives of U.S. military and civilian personnel.

I am by no means an advocate of much of the U.S. foreign policy over the years (contrary to your view, I feel there is little that changes in this regard regardless whether the "wing" holding the Presidency is "right" or "left"); however, such claims as you've made bear corroboration else they are an insult to all who would read them.

I have closed this topic from further discussion.

We are all aware of racism and prejudice in the world and nothing in the discussion is going to fix or change it. We all have our own opinions about it.