You might be a computer geek if....

you dream in binary!

I once made a nightmare where I was a nice little EXE attacked by a nasty virus, does that count?

By the way, many years ago, I made a breadboarded binary clock that got it's signal from amplifying the 60Hz (well it was 120Hz since it was a full bridge rectifier; lol) from the power supply (note, the PS was completely sealed so actually picked up the noise on the +12V side of the supply; lol) and using divider circuits to create the ticks. Worked great; even added an alarm feature. Loved that breadboard. Created an 8K echoer using static RAM (cost me $15 at that time as I recall; a year later I upgraded to 32K for the same price; didn't create another circuit on that breadboard for 3 years since I enjoyed the echoer so much. Did not use a processor either; all chip level; lol) and even won the Auburn Engineering E-Day contest (believe in 1990; brain cells dead so don't remember the date; don't believe it was 1991 since I was playing in the Desert that year) by creating a voice interactive directional controller on that same breadboard based on a Voice recognition chip that Radio Shack was selling at the time. lol

So I use to be a geek (but not necessarily Computer), but now just a lazy bum.

Lyle: The fact that you remember much (any) of it, hardly excuses from geekdom. Accept your fate, you are a geek. <marking a note on my geeky whole year (actual) desktop calendar>

I have no idea why I have to have these calendars on my desk, I have like 5 computers all with scheduling and task oriented programs, and I still write on this jumbo-tron paper calendar.

• Because it doesn't require power and it is always available.
• You don't have to find and click on a little icon or wait for your computer to power up to use it.
• Because the writing can be large and you can still see an entire month at a glance.
• Because you don't have to worry about synchronizing the calendar content on all of your computers.
• Because it is immune to computer viruses and crashes.

This is only a partial list, but you get the idea...
(Besides, dinner is ready.)

This reasoning is totally non-geek

I have 3 questions for all the programmers and script writers here.

If you had a student under you, what is the first thing you would teach them about scripting?

Why?

And .......

Which scripting language would you teach them?

Very true... I'm not a geek.

The basic concepts of programming. A script is a program and it's a lot easier to program when you understand the basic concepts.


This is a difficult question.

Scheme (Script-Fu) is supported in the standard GIMP distribution and there are numerous tutorials on how to use it. It also has an interactive interface which is very useful for the beginner.

On the other hand, Scheme is a LISP type language and very different from other common programming languages. I've used a lot of different languages over the years and this year was the first time I've used a LISP language. I'm constantly messing up the syntax because it is so different.

Python is better because it is similar to the common programming languages and thus is less confusing if you are familiar with other languages or want to move to more advanced programming. It also appears to be much more powerful.

On the other hand, Python is not part of the standard GIMP distribution and installing it can be a pain if you don't find the right package. And information on Python programming is not as readily apparent / available in GIMP-land. It also doesn't have an interactive interface, which is a disadvantage for beginners.

I currently use Scheme because it is the current standard. If Python were supported in the standard GIMP installation, AND documentation was more readily available, I'd switch to Python.

if your wife breaks your computer instead of hitting you because she knows that will hurt you more. Yes, this actually happened with my ex wife, she threw my monitor threw a window. It really made her mad when I went and charged $250 for a new one to her credit card.

I assume this is *not* only Gimp related...



I'd show scripts which make life easier. Also I'd explain why command line scripts can be very convenient.



Just to see the gains. Script power is often very easy to show and benefits are often obvious.



Short answer: Python.

Longer answer: There are many good candidates, Perl, PHP and Ruby can be very effective in their own domains. But if you want scripting be portable and extendable, Python seems to be very good all-purpose language, even if it has some problems. Python is well supported in all OSs and many applications nowadays have internal Python scripting. It seems to be quite portable between OSs. In server side it's not that good choice, but I assume that's not what you have in mind with your young padawan?

I would teach concepts such as data types and structures, control structures and a bit of logic programming.


Because those are the underlying skills you need as a programmer.


I would avoid a specific programming language and instead teach the above concepts using more generic algorithmic notation. I would suggest that one shouldn't get too caught up in a specific programming language and view languages as tools, picking the appropriate tool for the job.

If you learn the underlying concepts, you will have the ability to pick up pretty much any programming language in short order. Syntax and formats may change from language to language but underlying concepts remain the same.

This





Scheme (Script-fu), Lua (GLUAS), JavaScript (EcmaScript), and/or C.

Find existing code and read it. Try to understand it. Try to grasp why the author choose that solution or particular idiom and determine if it is better than what you have seen up to now. Is it more readable? More efficient? More amenable to changes? Ask questions. To yourself, to Google, to people in the know (that would be me, if you are my intern). Then write code. Don't be satisfied with it just because it works. It should "look good" (this assumes a fairly decent level of self-criticism).

Because that's how I learn new computer languages. And in 30 years, I have learned quite a few, and rather quickly achieved a reputation of expert each time (but I keep reminding myself that in the land of the blind, the one-eyed man is king)

The more generic one, but it depends on the actual needs, too. Not so long ago, I had the choice between Python and Scheme, to code scripts for some obscure software authored by mostly unshaven Scandinavians(*) that I play with in my spare time (the software, not the Scandinavians). Scheme is Lots of Idiotic and Stupid Parentheses, and Python has a lot of uses elsewhere. So I took Python, and 300 lines of code later, in my day job, they look for someone who can write Python scripts to configure web servers... wink, wink, nudge, nudge, see what I mean? Plus Python object-like programming makes is really easy. Say, for instance, that you are writing a piece of code that draws periodic decorations along a curve. You want to draw sines, triangles, squares... either you write three different pieces of code despite all the common stuff, or you put a lots of tests and generate spaghetti code, or you define a generic class that you derive to replace a couple of methods to draw squares, triangles, or sines. Your choice.

(*) OK ,there is also a Russian in the gang, and may be even some uncouth French...

Or, you use any suitable language and write clean, structured code. If you're really interested in performance, pick the most appropriate lowest level language (3'rd GL or lower) and write good code.

Hehe, that's interesting, most people I know love Python. To each their own I guess. Many scientists I know even move from compiled languages (C, Fortran) to (primarily) Python for many regular tasks. Even large traditional astronomy software packages are being ported to Python simply because it's so much easier to maintain and work with. I would definitely teach Python as a beginner's language. Not only is it a very complete language, its very syntax helps better coding practices, and it is (at least IMO) very elegant to work with. By far my favourite language, and I use it for heavy programming tasks as well as more hobby ones. Plus it acts both as a functional language and an object-oriented one depending on your needs (or level of understanding).

Scheme and other functional languages are pretty good for learning, that's true - if nothing else the concept of recursion becomes very clear. My first computer courses back in university used Scheme, but the parenthesis-laden syntax just feels so very, very archaic to me, always has. Javascript is also a pretty good language, and very useful. Don't know Lua, heard good stuff about it.

I wouldn't teach C to a beginner though, it's not a language for scripting nor for prototyping. Myself, I build the logics in Python. If there are any particuarly speed-critical part (like a heavy algorithm etc), I code only that bit in C (or even Fortran) and simply import it as a Python module. Very easy and efficient, but it's not something a beginner is likely to need - plain Python (or for that matter Javascript, Scheme etc) is more than enough for most applications when it comes to speed.
.
Griatch

Structured code isn't incompatible with object orientation.

saulgoode is probably just too sophisticated for his own good.

Python has some elegance problems. At first I couldn't understand what good it does to have a language where white space has meaning. But later I just adjusted. It's usable and quite well supported.


I have used all of those (10+ years of paid C/C++ work). All of those are very useful. But not for beginner. Lua might be useful even for beginner, but it's main use, embedded script language, is beyond scope for beginner. I might even question if those others *are* script languages. Gimp, Emacs and AutoCAD notwithstanding, where Scheme is used as scripting language? JavaScript needs support from other 'languages' or markups. C is script language only if certain Unix shells are considered.

Maybe it's just that Python has some of the same vices as BASIC had.

(I know, I need to go back to drawing board. It's just... Way too interesting. Road to hell is paved with good intentions and all that...)

Yes, you could say that structured programming is a forerunner to object-oriented programming. My point is that it's the programmer who is responsible for the spaghetti code you mentioned, not the programming language itself.

Spaghettii code those days is whatever is more that 4 levels deep