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 Post subject: Re: Help Board suggestion
PostPosted: Sat Apr 02, 2011 5:00 pm  (#21) 
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PC what questions do you think would be relevant to this form?

How do these sound? - Four very basic easy to understand questions.
******************************

What is your operating system?
Which version of Gimp are you using?
How long have you been using Gimp?
What is your comment or request?

******************************

Then ill just use text areas for each answer.
As long as the user is logged in to Gimp Chat the form will work after they submit the captcha.
This insures they are a member, and hopefully human.
I'll make it a Jquery page that pops up when the user clicks whatever Tux wants them to click.
I am not sure if linking to "New Topic" will work - Being an image for that page it may.Then i can just link
it from the image - to the form - submit back to the forum page and auto post it.That is going to be sort
of like posting a new blog entry i think.Shouldn't be too difficult
If the form gets too much spam we can work with something else maybe.
PHP or XHTML whatever Tux needs.It shouldn't need to be hooked to a database (the form shouldn't anyways)

Ill start on it tonight, and try and get a prototype working on my website first.


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 Post subject: Re: Help Board suggestion
PostPosted: Sat Apr 02, 2011 5:54 pm  (#22) 
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i suggest

1)What is your operating system?
2)Which version of Gimp are you using?
3)If a problem with a filter or a tool specify which
4) Gimp error messages
if was a error message, copy and paste HERE..
(HERE obviously should be a field to paste the error message

I suppose 3 and 4 may be be rephrased in a better English.
#################################################
A important point, the same of my reply to Will

The form should look as much possible like a Pool
below question 1 and 2 the boxes with the possible answers, user should just check the right box


if reply cannot be done checking a box (as for 3) then
and a should be a example of one word reply and the field for the reply

as

3)If a problem with a filter or a tool specify which
(EXAMPLE : if problems when cloning write "clone tool ")
...with a field where type "Clone tool" or whatelse needed

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 Post subject: Re: Help Board suggestion
PostPosted: Sat Apr 02, 2011 8:15 pm  (#23) 
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Make it so it won't post until all criteria have been met. Using toggle boxes or radio buttons would make it quicker for most input options. Use "Other" for those where input is unexpected, and they can clarify what "other" is.

A bit off-topic, but nonetheless related is most often there are already posts on questions people ask, but it seems people are too lazy or unaware of using "Search". I see this everywhere, all the "HELP ME HELP ME HELP ME" posts that explain little in the way of what they need help for. I ignore them. Users should be made aware that their posts will be ignored until they provide the correct information, which sounds harsh, but come on...How hard is it really to type a word in the Search box? Seriously?

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 Post subject: Re: Help Board suggestion
PostPosted: Sat Apr 02, 2011 8:54 pm  (#24) 
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mahvin wrote:
Using toggle boxes or radio buttons would make it quicker for most input options. Use "Other" for those where input is unexpected, and they can clarify what "other" is.


exactly my idea, toggle boxes or radio buttom when is possible, completed by
"Other"

mahvin wrote:
A bit off-topic, but nonetheless related is most often there are already posts on questions people ask, but it seems people are too lazy or unaware of using "Search"...


Not off topic.
Ofnuts in the first page of the topic proposed a smart solution
If i understand it well, the new topic title and the content of the form may be automatically scanned in search of keywords, if that keyword correspond to already answered question will appear a message like "Similar question seems already answered here (Links)

Of course use search with smart keywords will always give more chances to get
relevant hit, but as you remark few do a search before post a topic,
and that will prevent at least FAQ to be reposted

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Last edited by PhotoComix on Sat Apr 02, 2011 9:01 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Help Board suggestion
PostPosted: Sat Apr 02, 2011 8:58 pm  (#25) 
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Bingo! That would be the ideal way to approach this.

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 Post subject: Re: Help Board suggestion
PostPosted: Sat Apr 02, 2011 9:07 pm  (#26) 
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A bit off topic search has some flaws:
as example failed to find the "Xnview script " topic by RobA using "Xnview" as keyword

That because the title was "XnviewShell script.." with no a space between Xnview and Shell :roll:

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 Post subject: Re: Help Board suggestion
PostPosted: Sat Apr 02, 2011 9:10 pm  (#27) 
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Search for any terms brings it up.

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 Post subject: Re: Help Board suggestion
PostPosted: Sat Apr 02, 2011 9:58 pm  (#28) 
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Well this is kinda what i have now - the form will not transfer information yet. :)
You can type in text, mouse over the buttons, and captcha will change image, but that's about it right now.
I just want to get some more input from you guys how it should look.I tried to make it a little fun too.
Should it sport Gimp Chats Header?
http://simply-signage.com/formtest/GCHelpForm/

If you have trouble with the site loading just keep trying i have had some trouble lately with my hosting provider.
I have been trying to get it resolved.


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 Post subject: Re: Help Board suggestion
PostPosted: Sat Apr 02, 2011 10:18 pm  (#29) 
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Windows and Linux isn't enough. XP and Vista/7 have differences in explanations for files and folders, and Linux is just too broad simply because each distro behaves and looks differently. I'm certain you already realize this, but in a Help situation just knowing "Windows" or "Linux" isn't enough, especially for those doing the helping.

As for GIMP versions, I've actually run into different people who email me about issues with my tutorials who are actually using GIMP from 1.X (pre-2000?). It forced me to start adding "This tutorial done with GIMP 2.6.4...", etc. I couldn't fathom anyone still using prehistoric versions of GIMP. But it happens!

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 Post subject: Re: Help Board suggestion
PostPosted: Sat Apr 02, 2011 10:21 pm  (#30) 
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nice set up! Maybe instead of additional comments, it could say ask your question or what do you need help with? And that could be a bigger box to it would draw the eye to it. where would this page be so that readers would see that right away? would it come up whenever someone clicked on new topic in the help board? would there also be a tab or little graphic on the forum front page to go directly to the help question form? What you have already is great, and should help people get the answers they need.


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 Post subject: Re: Help Board suggestion
PostPosted: Sat Apr 02, 2011 10:51 pm  (#31) 
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2-ton the help form would pop up after clicking the New Topic button (if possible) in Gimp Help.
I suppose we could add a graphic button to the main page to let users click for help right away.
We definitely want the user to be a member and logged in first though.
By the way the comment boxes will get larger as you type 2-ton.

I suppose i could do a Windows topic - then a variety of windows check boxes.
Same with Linux, and Mac. We could go Gimp-2.7.2 - Gimp-2.7.1 - Gimp-2.6.11 - Then go with groups of Gimp or something.Like Gimp-2.6.0 thru Gimp-2.6.10 / Gimp-2.5.0 Gimp-2.5.9./Gimp-2.4.0 thru Gimp-2.4.9 .. ect .. ect
I was trying to make the form as simple and small as possible.


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 Post subject: Re: Help Board suggestion
PostPosted: Sat Apr 02, 2011 11:00 pm  (#32) 
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I was just thinking i should probably add to name the tool or plug-in with the problem.Then probably another text area for Other.
Then another text box for their questions.


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 Post subject: Re: Help Board suggestion
PostPosted: Sat Apr 02, 2011 11:07 pm  (#33) 
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You could utilize drop down menus on the form with multiple options to minimize the need to add buttons or toggles for each.

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 Post subject: Re: Help Board suggestion
PostPosted: Sun Apr 03, 2011 1:22 am  (#34) 
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I had a better idea.
I gave the user the directions to submit platform and distribution type
Also the same for Version of your Gimp
All but the error message area are validated.
Image

Right now the get help button submits all the info to a data file in the same directory named
formdata.csv - i can then review the data and submit it myself.Until i figure out how to add it to
PHPbb 3.0.8 that is.
formdata.csv file grabs the users IP address also.Which is a nice security measure i think. :)

I almost think it would be better to just have them submit the form to me or someone else and have them all reviewed.Until it gets to be too much that is. :) Then we can try and figure out a way to automate it.


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 Post subject: Re: Help Board suggestion
PostPosted: Sun Apr 03, 2011 1:48 am  (#35) 
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I like the idea of radio buttons, drop down menus, etc, but isn't that making the form restrictive. Usually, all that is required is the name of the operating system and which version of Gimp they are using (if they know) and a problem description. So two questions is all that is required. The problem description will be the story the requester presents.
The requester should fill in those basic questions in the best way he sees fit. For instance some people will not know the version of Gimp they are using so asking them to fill in a box may be misleading to the helper as the requester may "pick a box" without truly knowing the answer and this problem is multiplied by each box they have to tick. But each requester will know whether they have Ubuntu, Mint, win7 x64, or Mac. If they do not know this they probably are going to be very difficult to help in any case!
I do not see the need for the captcha, as it is, a spammer can spam the forum, so why this special case in the Help Forum. Am I missing something here.

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 Post subject: Re: Help Board suggestion
PostPosted: Sun Apr 03, 2011 1:57 am  (#36) 
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Quote:
I like the idea of radio buttons, drop down menus, etc, but isn't that making the form restrictive. Usually, all that is required is the name of the operating system and which version of Gimp they are using (if they know) and a problem description. So two questions is all that is required. The problem description will be the story the requester presents.


I disagree with you on a drop down menu of OS making the form restrictive. I think its a rather quick method of including all OS's in one list, and the user only has to scroll and select it. I think having 10 different radio buttons to indicate version of Linux to be a bit much. Windows at the most 4 (3 if you want to leave out the dinosaurs using 2000). It's far easier to help someone who states what they are using for an OS, right off the bat, instead of going through the motions of explaining everything and then have them at the last minute say, oh I am using XP, blah blah blah...

Quote:
I had a better idea.
I gave the user the directions to submit platform and distribution type
Also the same for Version of your Gimp
All but the error message area are validated.


That's cool, too, but I can almost guarantee a majority of people seeking help will skip right past inputting information with their keyboard.

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Last edited by mahvin on Sun Apr 03, 2011 2:04 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Help Board suggestion
PostPosted: Sun Apr 03, 2011 2:02 am  (#37) 
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wbool63 wrote:
I like the idea of radio buttons, drop down menus, etc, but isn't that making the form restrictive. Usually, all that is required is the name of the operating system and which version of Gimp they are using (if they know) and a problem description. So two questions is all that is required. The problem description will be the story the requester presents.
The requester should fill in those basic questions in the best way he sees fit. For instance some people will not know the version of Gimp they are using so asking them to fill in a box may be misleading to the helper as the requester may "pick a box" without truly knowing the answer and this problem is multiplied by each box they have to tick. But each requester will know whether they have Ubuntu, Mint, win7 x64, or Mac. If they do not know this they probably are going to be very difficult to help in any case!
I do not see the need for the captcha, as it is, a spammer can spam the forum, so why this special case in the Help Forum. Am I missing something here.

The captcha is just a little added extra security, and as i stated above the form is simple enough.
Besides all of this has to be ok'ed by our fearless leader Tux.So it may not even be implemented.


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 Post subject: Re: Help Board suggestion
PostPosted: Sun Apr 03, 2011 2:05 am  (#38) 
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Therein lies the success of any new idea. Whether the site owner accepts it, indeed.

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 Post subject: Re: Help Board suggestion
PostPosted: Sun Apr 03, 2011 2:13 am  (#39) 
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Funny thing is, I filled out your form as a joke. And when I press the Get Help button it tells me I need to add my question, which is filled out. So, although I know its not active, it's behavior is still amusing.

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 Post subject: Re: Help Board suggestion
PostPosted: Sun Apr 03, 2011 3:26 am  (#40) 
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I definitely agree that to know which OS and which version of Gimp is being used is very desirable and a mandatory drop down when opening a new problem in the Help Forum makes sense.
If you assume that the requester can write then two boxes will suffice. The requester can fill in the boxes with his answer.
If he knows which version of OS he is using he can write that in the box. If he knows which version of Gimp he is using he can write that in the box.
If he does not know exactly which OS or Gimp version he is using then a mandatory drop-down with several choices is not going to help.
A lot of people would not know the difference between inherent Gimp functions and plugins

All I see is that the method of asking a question in the help section is becoming more difficult where it should remain as simple as possible. Hence my reference to more questions / radio buttons /dropdowns becoming a restrictive influence.

By all means lets ask the basic questions , but keep it simple!

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