Can I just say that I have learned a lot from using GIMP, but all along the way I have watched the work of users of other graphics programs create their work in PSP and PS and etc...I've somehow managed to get something fairly near those in GIMP...but being a Mac user, i find the limitations imposed on me in GIMP, such as not being able to use the animation package, and the issues regarding python things, and etc..and with PSP, nothing compatible with any other type of computer....just windows.....everything seems to be geared towards non mac users and I find that very vexing, but also one of the main reasons I use GIMP, versatility across platforms for most things. (hopethis makes sense)

Another reason why people assume PS is better than GIMP is because of the name value. Photoshop has become so entrenched in today's vernacular that replacing it will not be an easy task. Myself, I have tried to use PS but found the layout too confusing for my taste. Though GIMP may take a little more effort to do some of the things that PS can do easily, GIMP has a far more user-friendly interface.

Like iPods, Kleenex, Band-Aids, or Rollerblades. Even when others buy mp3 players, facial tissue, adhesive bandages, or in-line skates they still call them by the popular name.

Hence both people and the media will always refer to "Photoshopping" images rather than "digitally manipulating" images, and any software that performs such a feat is commonly referred to as Photoshop.

-Rob A>

I'd be inclined to agree with that statement RobA...It more or less refers to PS as a generic name rather than a brand name.

One thing that keeps Gimp out of the spot light is the fact that it is the chosen choice of almost every client.
They may not know how to use it, but they hire someone who does and now they have a way to manipulate or change what the original artist has created for them. That in turn saves them money down the road.
But hey when you go out and spend 700.00 on software you are darn well going to use it.
That's just a given.

So when you ask a client if they mind that you use any graphic software they will ask you which one and as long as i can fully edit the PSD they normally do not care.
Gimp is getting there where it can handle many PSD layers including 3-D rendered layers from CS5 Extended.(Yes i tried)
It needs to be able to handle PS layers so it can gain that same recognition as a suitable graphic design app.But FREE!

When Gimp can open and manipulate any part of a PSD it may be able to get a foot in the door.

I wonder if G'MIC could be coaxed to handle PS files since G'MIC supports all of PS's layer types unlike GIMP. Going to post this at the G'MIC Flickr; maybe someone can come up with a PSD translator to GIMP.

That would be cool Lyle especially if it could handle them within Group Folders as adjustment layers.

I am a Windows Gimp user for about 8 years and it is a wonderful program and during that time I have learnt a lot.
I have purchased Ps CS5 because during that time , I have had continual problems with Gimp grinding to a halt with apparent storage (virtual or real) problems ( I save often, but I still get caught).
I have had to fiddle with my Wacom graphire tablet every time there is a new version of Gimp , including some versions that will not support a tablet at all.
And trying to print from Gimp is a nightmare. I have had to re-install on many occasions because the so-called new versions have bugs that should have been picked up in the development stage.

I have heard all the arguments about Gimp being designed for Linux, but it is the windows world that is the biggest user group by a long shot.

There is so much I like about Gimp that it is my favourite program for photo editing (my main use) but I get terribly frustrated when I read reports about the future versions where these issues are still not addressed.

Until the GTK, Gimp, Gegle, Python and Windows world get it together for windows, Gimp will never be a genuine contender in the Graphics stakes.

I am not a programmer, so please no recriminations to help a bit, I cant. I am just a frustrated enduser. And I very much appreciate the work that is done by people such as Partha, Jernej Simoncic and many others that I do not know of.

I am not incorrectly assuming that Ps is better, it simply is. I can take it out of the box, it will print, it will recognise my tablet and work immediately and it will not stop in the middle of an operation.
This is how an end-user rates a program and why it continues to get the tick of approval by the commercial graphics world.

On a flipside you have many folks adding to Gimp, and you aren't going to see that in PhotoShop.

Rod , I agree with you, but it doesn't change the facts that I am still having the same problems after 8 years. And all the pre-release hype for the next couple of releases do not give me a "fuzzy" feeling that the issues are adequately addressed.
It may be that Ps' position to charge more for everything will attract many more people to Gimp, but unless the problems are fixed for the end users these people will revert to Ps again by necessity if they have to rely on their graphics program to make a living.
I would venture that 95% of the people on this forum do not rely on Gimp to make a living, whether they be Linux or Windows users.

BTW , I really am not trying to get into a Linux/windows Gimp/Ps debate here.
Nor am I trying to downgrade the great work that has been put into Gimp. I have championed Gimp to many Ps users and Gimp critics but I refuse to lull myself into believing that Gimp is as good or better than Ps.

You make some good points here. I really wish there was some way that I could help improve these gimp issues, but in the same token I always end up coming back to the question of "how can I help when it seems so obvious that these small issues aren't seen as issues to the developers?" I'm with you on this, and don't get me wrong I'm very grateful for what the gimp developers have done.

The thing is, I say things like this...and then I take the time to actually see what the developers are working on, and I feel stupid for even thinking that they're not working on improving things. Check this out:
http://wiki.gimp.org/index.php/Hacking: ... 4_Mar_2011

wbool63 is right concerning the instability issues with GIMP and I use surrogates to print output as well since I have a weird printing issue with GIMP too (have to admit that it's been years since I tried to print out anything in GIMP and maybe they've fixed the print out issues by now). Still, when GIMP isn't going wacky, it is easy to use for me and it's my main crutch. GIMP might be more stable in Linux, but, like wbool63 said, the majority of users, I bet, are in the Windows realm such as myself and I too am greatful for folks like RobA, samj, saulgoode, and Partha just to name a few (and there are plenty more).

Well, I agree that Windows users are never going to embrace GIMP as long as it is not as functional as it is on Linux. The average user will not accept instability quirks and even if the troubles are sometimes solvable, few will bother to find a forum to ask, but immediately head on to other programs. In the same vein I agree that Photoshop is hard to beat (not that GIMP devs are even trying, as they have stated repeatedly). Heck with that cost PS should be hard to beat! It's in fact amazing that GIMP is as competitive as it is! That there do exist professional artists using solely open-source software is remarkable and a sign of things to come I think.

----

People on this forum are not average GIMP users however. There is some considerable expertise here and no fear of solving issues by thinking out of the box. So seriously, if you people use GIMP for so much, why stay satisfied with the seemingly unstable Windows version in the first place? There are plenty of ways to emulate Linux under a Windows box if you don't want to switch to Linux completely. If you even are willing to fork out for a PS version you can probably afford to fork out for even a commercial Linux emulator too (most things in Windows land costs money after all). As most things open-source, there are usually ways around your trouble - even beyond learning how to program or waiting for the developers to care about Windows ...

... Now, I'd say there are really preciously few reasons for having to use Windows for serious work these days, but that's a different discussion entirely.
.
Griatch

It's true.
After all, there is not even native PS version for GNU/Linux. It would be like criticizing PS because it runs bad under Wine. Today, to test or install GNU/Linux is even easier than Windows. A Dual-Boot is an option. Also with GNU/Linux will be able to try other great OpenSource graphic software as "Krita".

Because VMs running graphic programs don't feel like they run as fast as they would in native Windows. Don't care to dual boot either. I tolerate the instability with GIMP and Win7 since I hope it gets resolved in GIMP 2.8. Only concern with 2.8 is no Mathmap compile for 64-bit version meaning I'll probably op for 32-bit version GIMP which might mean continued stability issues.

Funny you say that because I run everyday some pretty big (2GB RAM) Windows software in a VM box , and my colleagues that run the same on native Windows on the very same hardware find that on the whole it runs faster on mine.

My PC is over 4 years old ofnuts; even though I have 6 total Gigs of RAM (all I can afford) it still isn't the highest horsepower system to run VMs at their best, but XP seems to run fine. Come to think of it, the few times I ran GIMP appear to run quite fast in Ubuntu, but still, I only dedicated 750MBytes RAM to my Ubuntu VM and don't plan to change. I still like running programs native though then in VMs. I edit in Win7 and created shares between my VMs and Win7 so that I can upload via my VM XP (don't or rarely go online in Win7; use XP as a Sandbox). Sounds like a paranoid approach to running a PC but it works and so far is rock solid w.r.t. protection. The concoction that I came up with is about as bullet proof against malware as you can get imo and trust me, I use to do this more on a full time bases (PC repair that is) and seen all kinds of mal-ware attacks and their consequences. Anti-virus is all but useless now adays; indeed, I only use an anti-trojan program in my XP VM depending on various virtualization schemes (use Sandboxie in XP VM) to thwart malware. Appears to work quite well. Delete the Sandbox if I feel something's wrong (literally takes seconds to do). Am I immune? I don't believe there is a 100% way to protect a system short of pulling the internet connection, but I would say I'm 99.95% protected. To give you perspective, a person running an anti-virus program with firewall is only 90% protected at best (70% typical). Trust me when I tell you the scheme I use is the way to protect yourself from mal-ware but it does require discipline.

answering the op question...I pretty much know photoshop is probably better than gimp for pro use, but I am cheap and photo editing is just a hobby for me, so I will not put out the money that photoshop costs! Gimp, even just out of the box, does enough for me, and with the add-on ability, (again free) Gimp does more than I would ever need. I have used only stable releases both in XP and Snow Leopard and can say that I rarely run into problems using Gimp. So maybe PS is better, but not really that much better to warrant the money that would be involved.

So is there no way to do layer styles automatically in GIMP? I have been even writing my own actions for things I do a lot in PS....

Oh I wish CS3 worked in Wine....

guess I might be going back to windows if I can't solve these issues....

I constantly use Layer styles..... I do consider myself a professional user....

Possible that layer styles will be coming in gimp 2.8????